新浪财经独家对话达利欧：桥水员工离职率曾高达30%
新浪财经
11月01日 03:10
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新浪财经讯 11月1日消息，10月中旬达利欧再次来到中国，他在与新浪财经独家对话时，谈及桥水管理尤其是人才招聘和员工离职率。“第一年桥水的员工离职率高达30%。我们当然希望这个比率能低一些，但是我们仍然坚持贯彻高标准，并且认为只有不断地测试员工以及让员工检验工作环境才能达到两者完美的适应关系。”
在他看来，在这个领域内有超过一万家公司，作为行业的领头羊，桥水需要稀缺而极为优秀的人才，“可以说是万里挑一吧。虽然公司前期的人才招录过程是不错的，但仍存在一定比例的失误。”
宣布从联席CEO退下来不参与日常管理的达利欧，在今年却来了两次中国，相对于年初春节后的高调巡讲，这次10月中旬却较为低调。实际上，这两次到访中国背后还与桥水（中国）的业务直接相关。
新浪财经发现，就在宣布退休的同时，桥水（中国）的法定代表人由桥水基金创始人瑞．达利奥变更为王岩。今年3月将经营范围变为“投资管理”，为申请私募管理人资格做好准备。
而基金业协会备案数据还显示，今年10月9日，外资私募桥水投资就成立了首只私募基金——桥水全天候中国私募投资基金一号，随后该基金于10月17日在基金业协会完成备案并公示，托管人是招商证券。这距离桥水投资在基金业协会登记不到4个月。（新浪财经郭金霞 发自北京）
以下为对话实录：
新浪财经：桥水自创立以来，一直致力于将投资决策系统化、自动化，您能否讲一下这套系统是如何构建起来的？并且在这个过程中，您碰到的最大困难是什么，又是怎样克服的？
Ray Dalio：I have found that when I make decisions， writing down the criteria I’m using in words and then converting the criteria into algorithms allows me to create decision making systems that are much better than any decision I alone could make． This is because the criteria are much better thought out and the information processing is much faster and much less emotional． The criteria are better because by having them expressed in both writing and algorithms I can have them probed by others and back tested． This process also produces a much deeper understanding of how the world works， which I find exciting as well as invaluable． Through this process， I’ve come to see how the same things happen over and over again and unfold in basically the same ways because the same cause：effect relationships drive how they unfold． At first my biggest challenge to this was simply getting in the habit of doing it， but once I realized how productive it is – and how much fun – that was no longer a problem． Then the biggest challenge was to extend it to all sorts of qualitative， subjective decision making． However， with practice I learned how to do that better but still need to improve．
达利欧：做决定的时候，我会把打算使用的标准写下来，之后转化为算法的形式。
一方面，这样做出的决定比我单靠自己想要好得多。原因在于，通过这个方法我会更为透彻地思考标准；信息处理的过程也变得更快，并且更少受到情绪的影响。
另一方面，标准会更为优化，原因在于写成文字与转为算法的过程中，这套标准还会被他人检验、核查。同时，通过这个过程我也对世界的运作方式有了更为深刻的理解，在我看来这同样是无价的。我看清了同一件事情以几乎相同的方式反复发生，其背后的原因也是相同的，即因果关系。
起初，我面对的最大挑战就是把这种决策方式内化为习惯。但是当我意识到这个方法效果显著又趣味无穷的时候，习惯它就不是什么问题了。继而挑战转为应当如何将这种方式扩展使用到所有包括量化和主观的决策过程当中。尽管在实践中我体悟到了如何才能做得更好，但是仍有进步的空间。
新浪财经：在把投资决策系统化、自动化的过程中，哪些领域是比较容易运用系统化决策的？哪些领域又是充满挑战，比较不容易运用系统化决策的？
Ray Dalio：We at Bridgewater apply this to almost all decision making， not just investment decision making． For example， we apply it to how to run the business and how to manage people． That has been invaluable because it makes our decision making evidence-based and more understandable to people． It also allows others to contribute to making our decision making criteria better because they’re so explicit so anyone can suggest how the algorithms can be improved．
达利欧：在桥水，这样的决策方式被广泛应用，不仅限于有关投资的决定。举例来说，在企业运作以及人事管理上，我们也会用到这个决策手段。因此，我们的决策是以事实为依据的，也就更具有说服力。这一点意义重大。此外，由于决策标准在算法中被精细化呈现，任何员工都可以改进算法，为决策作出贡献。
新浪财经：您在书中也多次提及投资要尊重事实，但是所谓事实也会存在认知偏差，特别是金融市场中的很多事实或者数据。有没有更好的办法去量化事实的可信度？
Ray Dalio：I’ve found that having lots of data and analyzing it well helps to identify cognitive biases and being very explicit about one’s decision making process helps to reduce biased decision making． I also find that radical transparency helps biased decision making． Frankly， I can’t imagine how anyone could identify and reduce the chances of biased decision without these processes．
达利欧：在我看来，掌握大量数据并进行分析对辨别认知偏差很有帮助；清晰明了的决策过程以及完全透明（的决策机制）有助于减少认知偏差。坦白来说，没有这些过程的话，想要辨别并且减少认知偏差依我看来都是不可想象的。
新浪财经：一般来说，越有才华、有能力的员工，本身也是比较有个性、不容易被说服的。对于如何管理高智商的人才，你有什么秘诀？
Ray Dalio：It’s true that many smart people have their own minds． It’s also true most people， including really smart people often have wrong theories that they are harmfully attached to that leads them to make painfully wrong decisions． We at Bridgewater understand that risk so we are worried about being wrong and like to be stress-tested in order to improve our chances of being right． That’s fundamental to our idea-meritocratic culture． To do this well， we have agreed upon ways of determining different people’s believabities so the people who are the best thinkers in a subject can have stress-tests by others who are also great thinkers in that subject． How we do that is a bit complicated but it’s explained in my book．
达利欧：的确，聪明人多有主见。但是包括聪明人在内的大多数人，都可能因为自己错误的观念而做出错误的决策继而带来损失。在桥水，员工深知这种风险。因此我们喜欢做抗压测试，以此不断地寻求进步，提升决策的正确率。这是精英思想文化的根本。
为了优化这个过程，我们设定方法测试不同员工的可信度——在同一个问题上，一个有真知灼见的员工会由另一名同样有想法的同事进行抗压测试。具体方法稍显复杂，我在《原则》这本书里有详细解释。
新浪财经：有人进入桥水公司后如鱼得水，也有人适应不了桥水的节奏和公司文化。您可否分享下如何辞退不合格员工的艺术？
Ray Dalio：We strive to have meaningful work and meaningful relationships by being radically truthful and radically transparent with each other． We provide “tough love” and an evidence based approach to decision making． Most people understand that by helping each other know our weaknesses and strengths better， and by looking at the evidence together， that the process is both caring and fair． Therefore， they are willing to go through this process to see if they are capable of doing their job well． If they’re not， we agree that they should evolve into something else． A small percentage of the people deny the evidence - which is like denying that one is incompetent after repeatedly failing tests． In that case we fire them explaining that that’s how our system works and that we are sticking to it because we believe it’s logical．
达利欧：为了实现有意义的工作与人际关系，在桥水我们践行完全的互信与坦诚（透明）。为了帮助在工作中存在问题的员工，我们对其采取严厉的态度（tough love）。在（人事的）决策方法上也是以事实为依据的。大多数人都认同，互相指出优缺点、共同审视事实的过程是对彼此的关心，是非常公正的。因此，桥水的员工大都愿意通过这个过程来了解自己的工作表现。不愿意的话也有别的方法。小部分员工对多次抗压测试后得出自己竞争力不足的结论不太认同，这种情况下，他们会被解雇。我们会向他们解释，这是桥水公司认为合乎逻辑且行之有效的一套方法，桥水的运作方式就是如此。
新浪财经：作为一位要求严格的领导者，您是如何激活员工的执行力的？
Ray Dalio：It’s true that I strictly maintain very high standards． It’s also true that I care a lot about my people and work hard to try to help them succeed． They know that and that helps a lot．
达利欧：我的确是一直严格遵守高标准。同时我非常关心员工，也一直在努力帮助他们实现自我。这一点我的员工都非常清楚并且收益良多。
新浪财经：当员工对决策有所怀疑，您会怎样说服他们？
Ray Dalio：Because I honestly don’t know if they’re right or if I’m right we have fair， idea-meritocratic ways of exploring who is right． For example， by writing down and testing our criteria， and by triangulating with other believable people whom we agree would help us decide what makes sense， we can agree that we are being evidence-based rather than me being arbitrary or autocratic． The key is to have a decision making process that most people agree is idea-meritocratic．
达利欧：坦白来说，我并不知道是我的观点正确还是他们的观点正确，但是公司内部公正且维护精英思想的决策机制会做出定夺。举个例子，要做出一个合理的决策，我们会通过写成算法、检验标准、经由可信第三方测量几个步骤。因此我们的决策都是基于事实的而非任由我一人独断专权。关键还是寻求一个被广泛认同的决策机制。
新浪财经：桥水一直居高不下的员工离职率是否令您感到担忧？
Ray Dalio：We have about a 30 percent attrition rate in the first year． While we’d of course rather have a lower turnover rate， what matters most to us is maintaining very high standards and we know that we need to test people and they need to test our environment in order to make sure we have a good fit． The way I see it is that we are the top company in our industry which has about 10，000 companies in it， so we need very rare and exceptional people - let’s say one in a （did he mean to say “one in ten thousand”？） thousand type people． While our preselection process is good， it is not so good that we can pick such rare people without making a significant percentage of mistakes．
达利欧： 第一年桥水的员工离职率高达30%。我们当然希望这个比率能低一些，但是我们仍然坚持贯彻高标准，并且认为只有不断地测试员工以及让员工检验工作环境才能达到两者完美的适应关系。在这个领域内有超过一万家公司，作为行业的领头羊，桥水需要稀缺而极为优秀的人才，可以说是万里挑一吧。虽然公司前期的人才招录过程是不错的，但仍存在一定比例的失误。
新浪财经：关于员工激励——有种员工，能力很强，但是总是过高估计自己在团队中的贡献，因此总是对自己的报酬有着超越现实的期望。在您看来，这样的人是否值得继续培养？
Ray Dalio：You’re right about people having a bias to think they contributed more than they did． To see the extent of that bias I took a survey that asked people what percent of the contribution to Bridgewater success they made and it added up to 300 percent． However， by using metrics we are able to assess their contributions and we then pay them more than fairly． The key is to have great people who will produce great results that will lead to us having great income and to give them a generous slice of the pie．
达利欧：你说得没错，的确有一部分人会高估自己的贡献。我曾经要求员工参与调查，自评对公司作出贡献的比例，结果竟然高达百分之三百。但是通过一定的衡量标准，公司是可以根据员工的具体贡献公正地支付酬劳的。关键还在在于员工足够优秀并且能为公司创造财富，公司给他们的回馈也是相当慷慨的。